SAG AFTRA’s Duncan Crabtree Ireland Talks Deal With Replica Studios & AI’s Role In Future Contract Negotiations

Most of Hollywood might be in need of a breather from talking about the consequences of AI after the topic dominated most industry conversations for the better part of last year, but SAG AFTRA is still looking for ways to keep its members protected as the tech advances. The guild announced Tuesday that it had inked a deal with AI company Replica Studios regarding the use of digital voice replicas in video games .

The agreement will span both the creation of digital voice replicas and their use throughout game development. SAG AFTRA’s National Executive Director and chief negotiator Duncan Crabtree Ireland that the agreement illustrates SAG AFTRA’s “intent and ability to work with employers to create terms that benefit and protect our members and allow them to engage with opportunities driven by new technologies.” Related Stories Documentary DGA Awards Sets 2024 TV, Documentary & Commercials Nominations News SAG AFTRA Inks Agreement With Replica Studios For AI Digital Voice Replication Use In Video Games The deal comes after the guild recently ratified its film and TV with the AMPTP following a strike that lasted nearly six months.

During that time, AI became one of members’ chief concerns. It’s also an important milestone in SAG AFTRA’s current negotiations with the video game companies, which have been ongoing for more than a year. The committee for that contract is the same one that negotiated the deal with Replica. Below, Crabtree Ireland discusses more about the deal with Replica and how the guild hopes it will reinvigorate talks with the video game companies, as well as how AI will continue to be a key part of future negotiations with the AMPTP.

DEADLINE: Can you detail a bit more about the terms laid out in the agreement with Replica and why you’d consider it a step forward? DUNCAN CRABTREE IRELAND: I think number one, obviously, I mentioned the safe storage piece in the press conference. There are specific provisions that relate to the technological protection that needs to be put in place with regard to the storage of digital replica data or biometric data.

So that would be one thing. There is a specific limitation on the use of any kind of digital replication data for training other AI systems without consent. So one of the things that we would have liked to have in the AMPTP agreement was limitation on training of AI systems, but instead ended up achieving limitations on the use of generative AI systems.

But this also contains limitation on the use of work done under the contract for training purposes. There is a maximum period of use, so a time limitation on the use of these replicas and replicate data without additional consent. So it’s a bit different because in the AMPTP agreement, it’s really a project by project use, but there’s not a specific time limitation.

In this agreement, there is a time limitation after which additional payment and refreshed consent has to be obtained. And there’s a column called ‘enhanced transparency provisions’ regarding the specific details of the use in particular projects. So there’s a sort of transparency and disclosure section that requires both detailed information about the project in question and also detailed information about the intended use of the replica.

So those would be the four things that I would highlight as evolutionary advances in this agreement. DEADLINE: You spoke very briefly about this in the press conference, but how are you hoping this agreement might invigorate the negotiations with the video game companies? CRABTREE IRELAND: I feel like a lot of times companies may have the intention of not agreeing to things, or it may be that they just feel uncomfortable doing it because they’re concerned about a competitive disadvantage, or they’re just maybe feeling that they themselves aren’t expert enough and therefore they’re unsure if they should agree to certain things.

So when you have a company that has a really acknowledged expertise in an area, where this is the focus of their business, and they feel confident in putting these terms in place and developing their own core business, I think that can be persuasive to other companies where that isn’t their sole focus, but where they’re concerned about what the implications of certain terms are.

So I do hope that this will be a model, that Replica will be a role model, in a way for those companies and perhaps help us really convince them that they can make the deal that needs to be made and that it’s not going to harm their business. In fact, it’s gonna help their business. DEADLINE: Shreyas mentioned that this deal has been in the works for quite some time.

Is it just fortuitous timing that an agreement was signed now, when you’re reaching a critical moment in negotiations on your contract? CRABTREE IRELAND: I mean, if we hadn’t been on strike last year, this agreement almost certainly would have been completed sooner. But because obviously, as I’m sure you can imagine, that’s kind of an all in situation.

We weren’t able to to get this deal across the finish line while that was happening. So once the strike was over, and the agreement was ratified, we put the foot on the pedal on this one, and we were able to get it finalized in time. So the CES announcement is a happy — coincidence isn’t the right term I’m looking for.

I don’t know, maybe it’s fate? I don’t know. But it wasn’t the long term plan. We were hoping to have this announcement sooner. But we’re happy that we’re having it now. DEADLINE: I know SAG has been having conversations about AI for a while, but they really became prominent, especially among members, during this last strike.

Is there anything about those conversations you had with members that re informed your perspective in terms of approaching negotiations about AI going forward? CRABTREE IRELAND: Well, it was a very big conversation had amongst our membership on a widespread basis, especially during the ratification phase of the AMPTP contract.

So I think that certainly informs all of us about the concerns that members have in general terms. I think it also was an opportunity to really educate our members about what’s going on in AI and why the approach that our negotiating committee in that contract took was the right approach. I think it was clear that that message ultimately resonated with the vast majority of the membership, given the the ultimate results of that ratification vote.

That’s all part of how we move forward. I mean, this is a democratic organization made of 160,000 members, so it can be a challenge to be nimble, sometimes, but when our members are educated and engaged as they are now, they are a force to be reckoned with. So I think that it absolutely will impact the negotiations we have over AI and all of our other contract areas, because all those employers saw how committed our members are to this, and I think they understand that.

DEADLINE: You already have a strike authorization for this video game contract negotiation…are you prepared to use it? Can you give a status update on where those negotiations are at? CRABTREE IRELAND: We are continuing to try and close a deal with the video game companies without having to actually call a strike.

We are towards the end of that road, and it remains to be seen, but we’ll probably know in the next couple of weeks if the companies are going to make the moves necessary to make a deal. They’re very well aware of what that is. Once we see where that is, we’ll know where we’re headed. But our members are fully committed to achieving a fair deal in the video game contracts as it relates to AI and and other terms, and if a fair deal isn’t reached, then we will absolutely make use of that strike authorization.

DEADLINE: This deal with Replica feels reminiscent of the WGA’s strategy in the ’08 strike, which was to eventually begin striking deals with individual production companies — in part to prove their terms were perfectly achievable for the studios. It is a strategy that many wondered whether it may be used again this time around with the AMPTP, but ultimately wasn’t.

Was that ever on the table? CRABTREE IRELAND: The AMPTP in the film and television contracts is a multi employer bargaining unit, and so there are legal limitations on what we could do to prompt any of those companies to leave that bargaining unit. So that was something that could have happened if it had been evident that there was interest in doing that on the part of one of those companies.

But ultimately, I really feel like if we can achieve industry wide terms that are acceptable, that really helps make sure that everyone knows what’s going on and can be confident in the protections that are in place. Because, you can imagine, if we ended up with a handful or — even more than that, dozens of different versions of that agreement — how complex and confusing that could be for our members and their agents and lawyers.

So I think where we can remain in a place to create industry wide standards, that’s the best case scenario. But I would never knee jerk react against the idea of discussing things with individual companies. In the case of Replica, they’re not and haven’t ever been part of the multi employer bargaining group for video games, and they’re not really a video game studio.

They’re an AI company that’s going to be a vendor, or partner, with video game studios. So these provisions are very specific to that role in the industry, and it’s a little bit different than the kinds of things we’re negotiating in the video game contract, which include AI but aren’t solely limited to AI related concerns.

DEADLINE: The strikes took up a lot of mental energy, and I’m sure everyone in Hollywood is hoping for a bit of a reprieve, but it won’t be that long before SAG AFTRA is back at the bargaining table with the AMPTP. How are you looking to push AI provisions forward in upcoming negotiations? CRABTREE IRELAND: It’ll be sooner than even most people are clocking, because Television Animation is another negotiation with the AMPTP, and I expect that to be happening during the next six months.

And then the Network Code isn’t technically with the AMPTP, but as you know, a lot of the same companies. So anyone who thinks we’re gonna get a breather from talking about, thinking about, or working on AI is just mistaken, because it is going to be, I think, nonstop for the foreseeable future.

And it is really important. So there’s no doubt in my mind that is worth the time and energy we’re putting in, because we’re setting up ground rules and structures that are going to be in place for many years to come and are going to really affect people’s lives. So we’re very focused on it.

DEADLINE: Anything else you wanted to add? CRABTREE IRELAND: I guess the one other thing I’d add is the same thing I added a lot during the film and television strike. It’s even more so true in the video game context, which is this is a battle for working performers. Yes, celebrity type performers will benefit from provisions that are negotiated, but there’s a whole group of performers who this is a big part of their basic ability to make a living.

It’s a fight that really matters for them..